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tom_koehler
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Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 421
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, folks, do any of you have any opinions or questions on the possibility of a high speed internet utility here?

I think a few other cities have seized upon this as one more thing to lure business here. Lots of enterprises do their business online, and a city that has good fiber optic service available has a leg up on a city that does not have this service.

At the moment it is my understanding that houses as a general rule do not have fiber optics from the pole to the house. Also, if you live farther than a particular distance from the phone company's relay shed, you will not have good DSL service, which is the only relatively fast internet service for most people right now.

I am certainly willing to be corrected on this stuff, so don't be bashful if there is something to be said.

tom koehler
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frosted_flakes
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Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 673
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First we needed an airport to lure business here. Then it was a new school. Now it's fiber optics. What will it be tomorrow? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to first find a company that would actually move here and ask them what they want? I'm tired of people telling me we need this or that to get business here. I don't think anyone knows what is needed.
Besides, if a business wanted to come here and needed high speed internet they could just have T1 installed into their work space, just like thousands of companies have done all over the US. I don't think they really care how fast the internet is in our homes.
The worm has turned, but it looks the same on both ends.
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todd_r
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Post Number: 67
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought they might bring the cable to a central tower (Pork City Hill?), then broadcast the signal wirelessly over the town. This is how my lakenet wireless internet works. I have a small pad/dish on the house, pointed at the tower (3 miles away), and a cable from the pad comes into the house, to the router.

The city of Minneapolis has a similar system, as I understand it.

How that would work in the remoter parts of Lake County, I don't know.
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twoz
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Username: twoz

Post Number: 367
Registered: 09-2002


Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 08:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF SOMETHING WILL OR WILL NOT WORK UNLESS YOU TRY IT. WE MAY NEVER KNOW.
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nightrider
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Username: nightrider

Post Number: 66
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 08:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom,

It is more than a high speed internet utility. If the plan goes through every house would have fiber optics brought to their house and you would have the option to buy services like phone, TV service and high speed internet at competitive prices.

Jeff
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1247
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I like the idea of having an "option", as not everyone is interested in something like this.

I for one like a fast internet connection, as I send and receive lots of pictures from people, and with a slow connection it was/is a problem. Large files are quicker to load with a fast connection.

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tom_koehler
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Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 422
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

in response to todd's posting, re lakenet wireless, is the signal affected by fog, rain and snow? If there is no clear line of sight to the broadcasting antenna, is the service affected?

tom koehler
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tom_koehler
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Post Number: 423
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Right now I have Frontiernet for my DSL service. I also have my landline phone service through Frontier. The phone service is good, but I have issues with Frontier's DSL. During certain hours of the day, the "pipe" just isn't big enough. Web pages take much longer to load, and usenet service is terrible.

In reading up on internet connect speeds elsewhere around the planet, it seems that US connect speeds are significantly lower than elsewhere. I do not mean the custon high volume T1 and T2 and T3 lines that cost an arm and a leg, I'm talking about the ordinary run-of-the-mill services that might be considered "standard" or "household" speeds.

So, just exactly what is being proposed in this new high speed utility, and what will it mean in costs to the public and the individual user?

What are the main objections to this proposed service?

What are the implications for Frontier phone company?

If the optic cables are strung up on existing utility poles, like the telephone wires and TV cables, how does that work? Who actually owns the poles and maintains them?

Is there a limit of any kind, on the total number of different enterprises that might want to string up wires of some kind on these poles. I try to visualize it this way... imagine the route of poles in the area as a sort of "highway" and the different kinds of cables on them as "lanes" on the highway. One lane for electricity, another lane for telephone, and another lane for Television cable service. This new proposal might be equivalent to adding another lane to the highway, for High Speed Internet. Is there a limit to the number of "lanes" that could be added to this utility pole highway?

tom koehler
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todd_r
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Username: todd_r

Post Number: 68
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The signal is not as fickle as satellite tv. I only get interuppted connection due to major ice build up on the pad, like the big ice storm we had this past spring. There needs to be line of sight.............it goes through tree branches, it doesn't go through earth or a house.
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1248
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, I also have Frontier service, and lately I have seen that pages are taking such a long time to load,(I found if I click on the page which is empty all of a sudden it appears)... no matter what time of day, it takes time, they used to come up with no problem. Not sure if this is Frontiers fault or what though. My e-mail connection is fine though, no problems there.

Cost for something new is what most people are interested in.
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homeontherange
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Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 520
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Frontier has a speed test site if you are having problems with DSL.

http://speedtest.frontier.com/

I am literally online all day long as I telecommute, so if Frontier has a hiccup, I usually know about it. For the most part, I can't complain. There were some problems with the electronics down the road about half a mile, but that has been repaired now.

As for the fiber, I am all for it. It is not susceptable to lightning as copper wire is, and I have already had one router burned out from that.

Tom - One reason I think that other parts of the world have faster internet is that they subscribe to a different high speed pipe archetecture than we do in the U.S. We use T1 which is 1.544 Mbps with 24 channels available. Elsewhere E1 is used, which is 2.048 Mbps with 30 channels available. These channels can be multiplexed together to provide as much of the bandwidth that is needed. DSL total bandwidth is near the 1.544 Mbps, but it is a shared pipeline which may account for delays during busy periods. I think the same is true for cable internect access.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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frosted_flakes
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Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 674
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It will be in direct competition with Mediacom so perhaps prices will go down for TV and internet. I have cable internet now and it is good. I do not even know the price of it. Around $50.
The worm has turned, but it looks the same on both ends.
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1250
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hotr> I ran the test, and this is the results, which I don't know beans about, so don't know if this is good or not.
3350 kbps 418/8 KB/sec transfer rate download
384 kbps 48 KB/sec transfer rate upload
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homeontherange
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Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 521
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 05:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blondie, WOW, you measured about 3 times faster than what I got. Are you sure you are on DSL? Of course I am out of town a couple of miles, so that could have something to do with it.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1251
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guess so, high speed internet connection via Frontier.

I used to have Dial Up with another provider, and that was so slow, and I really had problems with that, so switched to Frontier.

I noted pages are loading like they should be today, knock on wood!!!
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frosted_flakes
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Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 675
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You get frontier DSL in the country, HOTR? When I had it you could only be s few switches from the main source. It was, about, 10 blocks away from the phone hut in the ally of 7th Ave and 5th street.
The worm has turned, but it looks the same on both ends.
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homeontherange
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Post Number: 522
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, it's great. There is a electronics cabinet near County Hwy 12 and Big Rock road. I guess it boosts the signal.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1252
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They are talking on the city council about this right now. Only thing, can't hear some of them real good. The one guy who got up, isn't talking into the microphone, so hard to hear him, and can't hear really good when a council member asks a question of the person speaking. We do have our TV turned up, suppose we could turn it up more!
I think they need to remind people that come up to the mike that they have to speak into it, rather than stand off to the side talking. Sure they can hear them there, but not us!

Sure we can read about in the paper.
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tom_koehler
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Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 424
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I went to the council meeting last night, specifically about the high speed internet issue. Fireworks! Rosati laid down the law right away, to keep folks from jumping up and chiming in. This gave her the opportunity to relent, with the agreement of the rest of the council, to allow more input from certain resource people in the audience.

Mr. Lehman, of Frontier, gave me an opportunity to dislike him almost right away. His presentation, meant to be forceful and assertive, came off as something from John D. Rockerfeller, of Standard Oil. Lehman said that he will give up high speed internet for free for two years, the day that Two Harbors starts up a new broadband utility. This was a simple threat to drive out the competition, the same technique that Rockerfeller used a century ago, in the oil industry.

Frontier has a reason to be afraid. If fiber optic broadband comes here, you will be able to get services that Frontier does not offer, plus telephone service. If the fiber network is affordable, it could drive Frontier out of business.

Lehman said that Frontier now provides 6 meg service for $29.00 a month, and I am asking myself, "where is this?" Right now, I pay $49.95 per month for Frontier High Speed Internet, and I am getting a speed of just over 3 megs download, and 270 k upload! My house is just 5 blocks from the phone shack on 7th av & 5th st.

To briefly explain some of the speed numbers...

3 megs --> three million bits per second (also written as mbps), transferred from a location in the Twin Cities to my location. This is called downloading.

270 k --> 270 thousand bits per second, or .27 million bits per second transferred from my location to a location in the Twin Cities. This is called uploading.

When you hook up to a web page, and you see the screen filling up with whatever is on the website, you are downloading.
When you send a picture to a website, or you send e-mail, you are uploading.

DSL (what we get from Frontier) is affected by several factors:

Distance from your house to the phone company shack

the length and wire size of the copper line from your phone jack to your DSL modem

internet traffic congestion - exactly comparable to rush hour traffic on the road

distance from you to the place you are communicating with (dealing with more traffic intersections or transfer points on the information superhighway)

from the web is some info on other connection speeds around the world

Japan 15.76 mbps down, 7.07 mbps up
Bulgaria 11.5 mbps down, 5.42 mbps up
Romania 12.22 mbps down, 4.86 mbps up
Republic of Moldova 9.32 mbps down, 3.51 mbps up
Russian Federation 8.13 mbps down, 4.62 mbps up

well, this was longer than I'd planned, and I suspect there is more yet. 'nuff for now.
tom koehler
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

, I pay $29.99 a month from Frontier for internet service, but I got in on a deal, which runs out in Feb 2010, so who knows what I will pay then.

I might assume the Frontier guy you spoke of, was the one that seemed a little irate and was standing off to the side of the podium, the one we couldn't hear well!
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tom_koehler
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Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 425
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

blondie... the Frontier Guy was on the agenda and did speak a couple of times. He was either irate or angry, I'm not sure which. He was not happy, though. If this thing flies, Frontier stands to lose a big whack of business. Some of the other communications companies will not do well, either.
tom koehler
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homeontherange
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Post Number: 523
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wished I could of been there. When that guy from Frontier said 6 meg for 29.95, I would have jumped out of my chair and said "Bring it on". If you can deliver that to my house, I will not sign up for fiber.

This is another example of the dinosaur corporations who go by the wayside because they can not keep up with technology. If Frontier was smart, they would be the first to sign on to the fiber, and start providing phone, high speed internet, and television. They already have an agreement with Dish. And Dish and DirecTV would be smart to jump on to the fiber before the cable company also. Satellite TV is really bad when the weather is nasty.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1254
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just had a guy from Frontier at our door, explaining that in the near future they will be checking the phone lines, so not to be alarmed, guess they have had some angry people in the past.
He wanted to see our last bill, which I just happened to have handy, why, so he could see if he could lower our rate, offer us Dish, etc.
At this time, I was not interested, I am interested what the future might bring, so I will wait.
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tom_koehler
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Post Number: 426
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

maybe the shoe is beginning to pinch, and Frontier realizes it has a real chance of legitimate competition - no captive customer base any more. good!
tom koehler
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cptcorn
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Username: cptcorn

Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monticello, MN has a similar setup...

For years, I used to work in the cable tv industry in St. Cloud, MN. We had two cable companies in the area. Let me just say this, it was awesome for the customer!

Bring on the fiber!

MediaCom and Frontier would have no comparable product. DLS is a dated technology. MediaCom has a step up from them since cable tv technology is still expanding rapidly. Even with DocSIS3.0 over the horizon fiber will still have much higher future scalability.
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tom_koehler
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Post Number: 427
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since this topic has come up locally (not counting the thread here) I have been reading more and more on area-wide high-speed internet. The general thrust is one comment, describing the US as an "internet ghetto" for the slow speeds in the US compared to many other places around the world.

As internet traffic becomes heavier and heavier, and more and more stuff goes online, the need for much higher household capacity becomes more apparent. More and more pressure is going to be brought to bear upon exising providers to upgrade or fall by the wayside as some other provider fills the gap.

No wonder Frontier had such a swift and heavy-handed response here. They are very concerned and do not like the prospect of having to spend beaucoup bux to keep their customer base. Surprising, too, as Frontier already has a lot of fiber already installed plus a suitably trained workforce, giving them a leg up on any of the other possible contenders.

tom koehler
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todd_r
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 09:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Along the lines of this thread, the city website could sure be a lot more bandwidth friendly. Ever download a document there? It looks like they scan pieces of paper to a greyscale .pdf image, at about 400kb's per page, so a 5 page black and white .pdf ends up being a 2mb download. It should be about one-tenth that size.
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frosted_flakes
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's easy for you to say.
The worm has turned, but it looks the same on both ends.
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blondie
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Post Number: 1268
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FOUND THIS ON THE INTERNET THIS MORNING

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The United States ranks 28th in the world in average Internet connection speed and is not making significant progress in building a faster network, according to a report released on Tuesday.

The report by the Communications Workers of America (CWA) said the average download speed in South Korea is 20.4 megabits per second (mbps) -- four times faster than the US average of 5.1 mbps.

Japan trails South Korea with an average of 15.8 mbps followed by Sweden at 12.8 mbps and the Netherlands at 11.0 mbps, the report said.

It said tests conducted by speedmatters.org found the average US download speed had improved by only nine-tenths of a megabit per second between 2008 and 2009 -- from 4.2 mbps to 5.1 mbps.

"The US has not made significant improvement in the speeds at which residents connect to the Internet," the report said. "Our nation continues to fall far behind other countries."

"People in Japan can upload a high-definition video in 12 minutes, compared to a grueling 2.5 hours at the US average upload speed," the report said.

It said 18 percent of those who took a US speed test recorded download speeds that were slower than 768 kilobits per second, which does not even qualify as basic broadband, according to the Federal Communications Commission.

Sixty-four percent connected at up to 10 mbps, 19 percent connected at speeds greater than 10 mbps and two percent exceeded 25 mbps.

The United States was ranked 20th in broadband penetration in a survey of 58 countries released earlier this year by Boston-based Strategy Analytics.

South Korea, Singapore, the Netherlands, Denmark and Taiwan were the top five countries listed in terms of access to high-speed Internet.

US President Barack Obama has pledged to put broadband in every home and the FCC has embarked on an ambitious project to bring high-speed Internet access to every corner of the United States.

According to the CWA report, the fastest download speeds in the United States are in the northeastern parts of the country while the slowest are in states such as Alaska, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.
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frosted_flakes
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Post Number: 687
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It comes as no surprise to me that the U.S. is behind other countries. When you lead, you buy technology that soon is old. Other countries started to give internet access later and put in newer technology. Just like in Mexico, even the poorest Mexicans have cell phones. No hard line phone, but a they have a cell phone. Just think of the money that could have been saved if cell phones were available when the U.S. was stringing all that wire.
But why does the Government feel that they owe their constituents broad band? I suppose you need it for down loading pictures and the internet must be 99% porn. So, yeah. Give em broad band.
The worm has turned, but it looks the same on both ends.
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blondie
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Username: blondie

Post Number: 1269
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You talk of the US being behind other countries, so true.
I have a friend in Wales, and she wanted to send me SMS(think that is what they call it, I call it text) messages, this was before she had internet. I go, a what, what are you talking about, mobile phone, never heard of it? Same thing as Debit cards, she had a debit card long before we could even think of getting them here in the states, we had never heard of them....around here anyway.
I am sure she thought boy talk about a hick!
When I was in Japan in 89, I was in AWE how far advanced they were in technology, and realized how far behind our country is in things.
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tom_koehler
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Post Number: 436
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some have said that the business of America is business. Although this little phrase can be interpreted in more than one way, it is undeniable even to a liberal like myself, that business interests in this country are important to the economic well-being of this country. Conservative sources will contend further, that small businesses are the economic engine of our country. Small businesses.

Big business interests have deep enough pockets to afford what are now special connections for broadband internet access. Small businesses, often located in the boondocks, can't afford broadband service or it may not even be available. Good communications is one of the handmaidens of success in business, opening a wider venue or audience for the business that has broadband access.

Education and healthcare also are better able to take advantage of changes and innovations in their fields if they can take full advantage of the best communications technology that is available. Law enforcement as well is better able to perform its function to serve and protect, when it has full access to high speed internet connections. Any citizen who has high speed access can also take full advantage of whatever may be offered by education and healthcare services.

The average citizens might be seen as having no need for broadband service, just as they once were thought to have no need for a telephone in every house. While it is true that we only truly NEED food, water and shelter, it is also undeniable that much of what now fills our homes and our lives is personally regarded as very important in each of our lives. Broadband high speed internet access in every home opens the door to greater enrichment of our lives by providing us with the ability to better communicate with our ever-widening community.

If you have taken the time to read any of these words, then you are an internet user. It is likely that the internet and access to it have become an important part of your life. It is hard for us to comprehend just exactly what high speed access really could mean, because none of us has ever really had it.
tom koehler

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