Topics Topics Help/Instructions Help Edit Profile Profile Member List Register  
Search Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Two Harbors Forum * Local Topics & Issues * Commentary & Observation Local, Etc. < Previous Next >

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-1999


Posted on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carry on . . . .
I'm addicted to placebos. I'd give them up, but it really wouldn't make any difference . . . .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 504
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Expanding the tax base in order to get the money we need to pay for city services - this is a flawed concept and works just like a Ponzi scheme.

Consider: We get new enterprises and improved property in town for the purpose of taxing them, for the purpose of paying for the city services we have come to expect. Well, okay, we will get some new money - but we also get new recipients of city services - which have to be paid for by tax money. So, we get more tax base -- that is, more real property, to raise more tax revenue to pay for the services provided to the prior new enterprises... but now we have *new* new enterprises to provide services to... and on and on it goes.

The paradigm of continual new growth is the description of cancer.

New growth, in and of itself is not bad. But new growth for the sake of new growth is bad. We have to remember that all new growth always comes with a cost that *must* be paid. If that unavoidable cost is not taken into account, there will be financial trouble.

What has been demonstrated in the past is that when a new addition to a municipality happens, say a condo development or a new platted area, there is an attendant cost for building streets, expanding utilities and expanding public services, including policing and street maintenance. These new costs far outweigh the property tax revenues that are generated. The bulk of the revenue goes to the state, and we still get left holding the bag.

Our taxes go to the state and then get divided up and paid back to the cities and counties and townships according to budget plans worked out in the state legislature, and signed by the governor. When the governor has presidential aspirations and wants to look good to potential voters, he refuses to balance the budget by authorising hikes in taxes, he just takes more of the money (by unallotment or refusal to sign a proposed budget into law) that was supposed to go back to the cities and counties and townships and schools and uses this confiscated money to pay the State of Minnesota bills. He then claims that the State has a balanced budget, and forces the cities and counties and townships and school districts to fend for themselves. The result is deferred maintenance at every level, school consolidations, increased fees of every kind at the local level, and reduced services at every level. The governor then claims he balanced the budget without raising taxes, and in effect is passing the blame for increased fees and deteriorating infrastructure on to the local levels of government and the local school boards.

Plain and simple, when the cost of a thing goes up you have to pay for it one way or another. If it costs more to plow a street, you either pay for it or you don't get the plowing done. Now add every other thing to this list - policing, maintenance, education, health services, whatever we have expected from our government. It all costs more. Therefore, more tax money is needed to pay for it. Adding tax base to the local taxing district is not the real answer. Increased tax base is also increased demand for the services bought with taxes.

I don't want you to think that I am dumping on you, Jerry, I'm not. Increasing the tax base is a fallacy, and not the true solution to our government finance problems. People just don't want to pay for what they are getting and do not want to give up the services they are getting, either.

tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 762
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why do I focus on 7th Avenue? That's where the customers are. That's what I have been trying to tell you. There are people, like yourself, who refuse to admit that. I take that back. You do admit that, simply by wanting to change it. A road to DT. You are not going to change anything. Free will, Jerry. People are going to go exactly where they want to go. For the life of me I can not understand why people are so focused on 1st Avenue. Jeeze. If you want to be in business, move to Grand Marais. Or, stay here. But why come to me and the rest of the community to make a retail environment for you? Provide a commodity/service that people want and they will come to you in Segog if that's where you chose to be.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

webman
Moderator
Username: webman

Post Number: 842
Registered: 08-1999


Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/156948/group/home/

The News Trib is "restructuring" again. Robin Washington is now the editor.
The trouble with life is, there's no background music.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

charlie_t
Pro Poster
Username: charlie_t

Post Number: 240
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From our last Blow - Chronny didn't want it, Star Trib published it . . .waves
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

charlie_t
Pro Poster
Username: charlie_t

Post Number: 241
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This one is about as big as I saw that day.tall wave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1424
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wonder why the Chronny didn't want it, they say send in pictures.
That is an awesome picture....especially the last one.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 39
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Makes you wonder why they built the break water!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 768
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know that I have ever seen it going over that close to the shore line. Maybe in my drinking days, but I wouldn't know. LOL
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 937
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great shot Charlie, thanks for sharing....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

charlie_t
Pro Poster
Username: charlie_t

Post Number: 242
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason given was the "it look's like Matt's picture", the editor's words. Now, Matt is a friend of mine, and he's doing a great job at the Chronny. I happen to be a photo pro with the gear that can get this kind of detail. I consider these "documentary" photos, not art photos, but you can see that Matt's photo, while basically of the same subject, wasn't taken with the best camera. Monica and I used to share our views of the same events and we each loved each others perspective and "photographers eye". It's not a competition. I printed these at 12x18, and those prints are a little more imposing . . .

No big deal. There are many good photographers here and lots of things that they shoot that would be of interest to the Chronny readers if there are any left, and if they want to start rebuilding. Matt can't be there for everything, if they wanted to add readers, and not alienate local shooters this might be one way to attract some interest.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 938
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brown wins over Coakley

Obama promised Hope and Change and finally tonight we are beginning to see real HOPE & CHANGE....

Look out come November 2010....

THANK YOU MASSACHUSETTS!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1428
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 06:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This does not surprise me at all.

If that Health reform bill passes, now that will surprise me!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 507
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not a part of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat. This election in Massachusetts may very well turn out to be a blessing in disguise for the Dems, who will now have to do some actual people to people work, in order to get things done. Joe Lieberman was holding the party hostage, in order to get what HE wanted, knowing he was in the catbird seat. Well, now Joe is going to find he will have to work harder, too.
tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

strwblue
Pro Poster
Username: strwblue

Post Number: 631
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Bassman... I didn't want to be the one the throw that grenade in this forum. LOL
Disclaimer: In as much as I am the Two Harbors Public Access Coordinator I am not now or have I ever spoken for the City of Two Harbors on this board.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 940
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 03:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I'm not a part of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

Are you saying that the Democrat party is not an organized political party Tom?

This election in Massachusetts may very well turn out to be a blessing in disguise for the Dems, who will now have to do some actual people to people work, in order to get things done.

I think Obama finally woke up to that fact:
"Obama to Dems: Don't jam through health care bill."

Joe Lieberman was holding the party hostage, in order to get what HE wanted, knowing he was in the catbird seat. Well, now Joe is going to find he will have to work harder, too.
tom koehler

Old Joe ran as an Independent, but still voted as a Democrat. He got some good support from the Republicans to win his seat, but he may not hold it if he doesn't change his ways...

Bassman Jack
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 508
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 09:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I'm not a part of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

Are you saying that the Democrat party is not an organized political party Tom?

yup. That is exactly what I am saying. The wisecrack I made about the party is an old one, and is as true today as it was when the joke was first told, probably on some late night talk show 20-odd years ago or more.

tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 941
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PROMISES, PROMISES: Gitmo closing deadline missed
DEVLIN BARRETT
From Associated Press
January 21, 2010 10:28 PM EST

WASHINGTON (AP) — As President Barack Obama neared his self-imposed deadline to close the Guantanamo Bay prison, the Justice Department offices of the terrorist detention task force were bustling — not with lawyers but construction workers tearing apart the walls, ripping out any trace of the secretive work, though Obama's goal is still far off.

The staffers were gone, having completed recommendations on detention policy. This Wednesday, the Guantanamo task force made its final recommendations for all of the 196 remaining detainees awaiting transfer, trial or further detention.

Attorney General Eric Holder has reviewed the bulk of those recommendations and decided that the most feared detainee — the self-declared mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — and four henchmen should face trial in New York.

For all that work, the Obama administration is still struggling to find the political muscle, diplomatic dexterity and cash from Congress to implement those tough, often unpopular decisions about the remaining detainees.

As one of his very first acts as president, Obama signed an executive order to close the military prison for terror suspects within a year. The one-year mark arrives Friday, and he will miss it by a wide margin, likely a year or more.

He has not offered a new deadline.

On Thursday, a protest over the delay led to 42 arrests. Members of the group Witness Against Torture gathered at the steps of the Capitol, where protesters dressed in jumpsuits held banners with such phrasing as "Broken Promises" or "Broken Laws" or "Broken Lives."

Unless he decides to change course, to close Gitmo the president must still find support in Congress to pay for a super-secure prison in Illinois for some of the detainees he wants to continue holding. He must also get additional money, likely hundreds of millions of dollars, to provide extra security to put some suspects, including Mohammed, on trial in federal courts.

Since Obama took office a year ago, more than 40 detainees have been removed from the naval base in Cuba — sent off to their homelands or to other countries. If the administration cannot quicken that pace, it would take until a hypothetical second Obama term to actually empty the site.

But the recent Christmas bombing attempt of a Detroit-bound airliner only gave further fuel to those urging the president to apply the brakes to the prison closure.

The young Nigerian accused in that attempt allegedly told investigators he was trained by al-Qaida operatives in Yemen.

That detail has huge implications for closing Guantanamo, where about 90 — or nearly half — of the remaining detainees are Yemenis, many with no clear place to go even if senior administration officials decide they can be released.

U.S. officials are increasingly worried that the group that claimed responsibility for the bombing attempt, al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, is so firmly entrenched in parts of that country that sending detainees back to Yemen could provide fresh troops to the terrorists.

The Obama administration, which sent a group of Yemenis home from Guantanamo just days before the failed airliner bombing, has halted any further transfers to Yemen for the near future.

Len Goodman, a Chicago lawyer who just returned Tuesday from a visit to the prison, said the delays have only embittered his client Shawali Khan, an Afghan detainee who was captured in 2002 and has long claimed he is innocent.

"His level of frustration is greater than I've ever seen it," said Goodman. "Everyone had high hopes for Obama, but sadly I think nothing has changed from Bush to Obama, except the conditions are better inside for the detainees. But all in all, it's just promises made and promises not kept."

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said again Thursday he doesn't know when the facility will close. But he said the president "pledged to close Guantanamo Bay and he'll do that."

The high-security military prison, the administration argues, actually weakens national security because it serves as a recruiting tool for terrorists and undermines the United States' moral authority in combatting such killers. Critics of the closure plan, principally Republicans, say bringing detainees to the U.S. to face trial or shipping them overseas only increases the risk of attacks.

Still others are urging the president to try new tactics — such as creating a new type of court proceeding combining civilian trials and military commissions.

Glenn Sulmasy, a law professor whose book "The National Security Court System," argues for such combination courts, said the president's difficulties in the past year have come mainly from Congress and an alternate approach could overcome that resistance.

"I think the administration took the right step to say they're going to close it," said Sulmasy. "But if you have a hybrid warrior fighting in a hybrid battlefield, it seems logical to produce a hybrid court."
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 942
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congratulations, Scott Brown!

TO: Barack Obama, Martha Coakley, Politicians, Politics, Scott Brown on January 19th, 2010

I would like to congratulate Scott Brown on his win tonight. He ran an amazing campaign and has clearly been an inspiration to many in Massachusetts and beyond.

To Scott: It’s not easy to go to Washington and keep your principles in tact. I hope that you set an example by making that happen.

To Massachusetts: I knew that the home of the Boston Tea Party would eventually come around!

To Coakley: Americans are quickly losing patience with elitists. We want our politicians real, relatable, and in touch with the struggles of the average American family. Think less Chuck Schumer, more Ronald Reagan.

To Michelle Obama: For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of Massachusetts.

To the Obama team: Now might be a good time to start listening to the people who put you where you are.

To America: If it can happen in Massachusetts, it can happen anywhere. Let the games begin.

Watching Americans fight the good fight for Scott Brown reminds me of the exceptionalism of our country’s spirit. It’s unique. It’s bold. It’s fearless.

It’s American.

http://jedediahbila.com/archives/958
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 943
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Air America going off the air!

Air American filing for bankruptcy. CNN blames it on the economy.
Conservative talk radio is doing well.....do you think that has something to
do with AA's failure? Ask Scott Brown.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/21/news/companies/air_america_bankrupt/index.htm
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 282
Registered: 08-1999


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 06:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moved several posts over to this thread this morning.
I'm addicted to placebos. I'd give them up, but it really wouldn't make any difference . . . .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 568
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing that I find odd, is that now that the Democrats don't have a filibuster proof senate any longer, the Republicans are gloating over there accomplishments in that they can now stop the Democrats from accomplishing anything. Then on the other hand, the Republicans are also crowing about how the Democrats are not achieving any results. The question is, "What do the Republicans want?", or do they now have what they want, a great nothingness. If the Republicans don't take advantage of their current position and start moving forward on some of the current legislation in congress, they may find that the people will start wondering if a Republican congress will be any better than what they have now, and decide to keep a Democratic congress. At least there is some movement there, even though some may say it is sideways. At least it is not backwards.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1431
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am not sure where to put this, but did you know that Waterfront Cafe is closed down, permanently. They put up a sign on their door.
So, all there is, is the pizza place now to eat at.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 509
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To say that Ronald Reagan was an ordinary American in touch with the struggles of the average American family is one of the best chuckles I have had in days, perhaps weeks. He was never in touch with the ordinary American. He lived in a fantasy world, making and selling fantasies for so many years he could no longer tell what was real and what he was pretending in. He demonstrated this over and over again in his public appearances while in office. He demonstrated his connectedness to the public by repeatedly feigning deafness when questioned by reporters, putting on his "there you go again" act when he could not walk away from the questioner, and then rigidly controlling public Q&A sessions with the press by cherry-picking the questions which had to be submitted to him well in advance of the public event. He was demonstrably one pf the worst presidents in my memory, likely excelled in his incompetence only by George Bush 43.

As for the prison in Gitmo, it was founded on false premises in the first place. Claims that since it was on foreign soil, the American standards of jurisprudence did not apply, are absolutely false. It is on an American military base and therefore it is American-controlled territory and subject not only to American standards of jurisprudence, it is also subject to the standards of the Universal Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which is the legal code controlling all American military installations at home, abroad, at sea, on military flights in air and outer space, and applies to all military personnel and any actions taken by military personnel. All actions taken by any personnel at Gitmo are subject to American legal standards, both civil and military. Further, since the base in on Cuban soil, the laws of the Cuban nation could also arguably be said to apply. Whoever is imprisoned at Gitmo can be just as easily imprisoned in the continental US. There are a number of high security prisons in the US that can easily handle whatever Gitmo has to offer, including one brand-new top security prison on or near a Indian reservation out west that was built on spec just for this kind of situation, the need to house high security risk criminals of the worst stripe. Nonew facilities need to be built. Further, we housed tens of thousands of military prisoners of war in WWII, with no problems. Granted many of those prisoners were glad to be out of the action but there were still several hundreds of hard-core POWs on our soil - far more than are now at Gitmo. Consider further that many of those at Gitmo are there not because of active military action against US forces but to settle personal intertribal feuds back in the 'stans... turned in for a bounty by their feuding enemies and nothing to do with terrorist war against the US. The few really high level prisoners there can easily be contained in a secure prison in the US. There are communities in the US just asking for the chance to host these prisoners in their facilities.

As for my take on certain Republican activities, it is based on what I have read in several different newspapers. Time after time, high ranking Republicans are seen to be more concerned with what is good for the Republican party, rather than working for the good of the USA, especially if it would mean working in a bipartisan fashion with *gasp* Democrats.

tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 771
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We need a Political Thread for all this stuff.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 283
Registered: 08-1999


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not.

The last one was giving me ulcers worrying about people being really nasty to each other. I closed it, and moved it to the archives. This one's ok so far, but if it starts tipping to the nasty side, it too will be exiled to the archives.
I'm addicted to placebos. I'd give them up, but it really wouldn't make any difference . . . .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 772
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, this thread is used for other posts, you know.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tailspin
Princess of the Realm
Username: tailspin

Post Number: 679
Registered: 09-2002


Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 944
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 01:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What Scott Brown's win means for the Democrats
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, January 22, 2010
On Jan. 14, five days before the Massachusetts special election, President Obama was in full bring-it-on mode as he rallied House Democrats behind his health-care reform. "If Republicans want to campaign against what we've done by standing up for the status quo and for insurance companies over American families and businesses, that is a fight I want to have."
The bravado lasted three days. When Obama campaigned in Boston on Jan. 17 for Obamacare supporter Martha Coakley, not once did he mention the health-care bill. When your candidate is sinking, you don't throw her a millstone.
After Coakley's defeat, Obama pretended that the real cause was a generalized anger and frustration "not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years."

Let's get this straight: The antipathy to George W. Bush is so enduring and powerful that . . . it just elected a Republican senator in Massachusetts? Why, the man is omnipotent.

And the Democrats are delusional: Scott Brown won by running against Obama, not Bush. He won by brilliantly nationalizing the race, running hard against the Obama agenda, most notably Obamacare. Killing it was his No. 1 campaign promise.

Bull's-eye. An astonishing 56 percent of Massachusetts voters, according to a Rasmussen poll, called health care their top issue. In a Fabrizio, McLaughlin & Associates poll, 78 percent of Brown voters said their vote was intended to stop Obamacare. Only a quarter of all voters in the Rasmussen poll cited the economy as their top issue, nicely refuting the Democratic view that Massachusetts was just the usual anti-incumbent resentment you expect in bad economic times.

Brown ran on a very specific, very clear agenda. Stop health care. Don't Mirandize terrorists. Don't raise taxes; cut them. And no more secret backroom deals with special interests.

(Read the rest of the story in link below.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/21/AR2010012103500. html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

charlie_t
Pro Poster
Username: charlie_t

Post Number: 243
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just read 'Legacy of Ashes", history of the CIA, it happens to span my lifetime from 1948 to the present. That good old, happy cuddly Ronnie Reagan was up to his ears in CIA dirty work, and as a guest in Berkeley - I have a cousin and a kid I grew up with who live there, must have been about 1969, I sucked Gov. Ron Reagans tear gas twice fired by the National guard he had deployed with barbed wire and armored vehicles on most of the street corners in the area of the University of California. Now I know those hippies are a rough bunch, but tear gas is something you never forget.

When the supreme court gave the USA to the Corporations yesterday, the USA I grew up in and love passed away. Because those of us who remember it are all over 40, or over 60 like me, in a couple of decades the idea of a democracy, one man one vote, inalienable rights and all the old fashioned stuff will only be available in revisionist history books. I have a new monogrammed t-shirt, it says RIP MY USA.

Here's a pretty picture just to make you feel better.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Charlie T that was quite a decision by the Supreme Court. Newt and John Boehner think it is great for the middle class, though. You think we have a bought and paid for Congress now, wait for what is coming. Allowing corporations to fund and buy candidates without any limits has just sold out whatever decency and honesty that was left in Congress.

Bassman Obama did not do a good job and mishandled health care terribly. Polls showed that people wanted a public option to compete with the insurance companies and he didn't fight for it. When it was known that the public option had no chance in the Senate, they floated the medicare buy in proposal at age 55. Guess who then decided he couldn't support that even though he campaiged on this issue and had supported this in the past, Joe Lieberman. Who does Joe represent? The people who want and need reform or the insurance companies that are located in his state. Looks to me like Joe would rather be an insurance company whore than to actually try and help the folks who don't have insurance and the rest of us who see our premiums rise every year, and the hundred of thousands of people, that face bankruptcy, because of some catastrophic illness.

Regarding the Mass voters. They already have state sponsored health care reform and don't have to worry about not having coverage. If Brown was running against Ted Kennedy (a champion of health care reform) do you think he still would've won? Not a chance, even the guy who runs the red state blog acknowledged that on CNN.

Regarding how much you want to convince us Bush was a success, you are in the very small minority of people who see it your way.

I know in the LHP threads 6 or 7 years ago you were badgering some of the posters to bet you that the point wouldn't be developed. It is a good thing for you they didn't take you up on it, you would be a few dollars poorer. Are you interested in a little wager here? I predict that Obama will still turn out to be a more honest and competent president than the guy before him. I know I could be wrong and he could turn out to be as bad or worse than Bush, but I am willing to take that chance.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 773
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why did you question my post, Spin? You think locking up a thread in "Local Topics & Issues" because of national political posts is fair? I don't. Why can't they have their own place to post? Why must a local thread be hijacked for national subjects?
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 40
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Republicans are happy with the Supreme Court decision simply because they think the money will flow into their campaigns. Greed has always been the guiding principle of the Republican party.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do have a question about a local issue. I see that TH is losing more jobs because of outsourcing. I read some of the comments on the Chronicle site and it sounds like they are sending the jobs to India. One of the posts I saw was that it was government claims. I was just wondering what that meant. I talked to a former TH person last night who used to work for Blue Cross Blue Shield as some type of computer analyst. He told me that they are now outsourcing these jobs to India and are offering employment to a small number to stay on here in MN for three years at about half the wage and only 2 weeks of vacation, even though they may have been there many years. Why do we allow companies to do this?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 41
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just read the Chronicle article. No surprise that the jobs are going, especially when it was a contract outfit. Lose the contract and it's the end of the line. Yes, 40 more jobs gone in a town of 3,600 people!
Where does it end. I am waiting for State budget problems to further reduce Local Government Aid and School Aid. Then we can look for teacher and local government layoffs too. You have to believe 40 more families with a 2nd income going away is going to hit the families and local business both. And be sure of one thing, there are no replacement jobs in TH for these people. Job gone, and there ain't no place to apply for work!
Why do jobs get outsourced? "Greed is the guiding principle of American business in the year 2010". They would rather fire every American there is than pay one penny out of their profits. It's easy to support this until it is YOUR job they are sending away. One family at a time they are dragging this country into poverty. Vote Republican, they support outsourcing 100%.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 569
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

....and I will bet some CEO will be getting a nice fat bonus this year.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 03:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jack I do realize it is done to maximize profits, but why do we stand by and allow it to happen? I agree, I see people argue that outsourcing is great, that is until it is their job being outsourced.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 774
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"We" have nothing to say about this, Lloyd. These decisions are not made "by" the local community, nor are they even made "in" the local community. "We" are under the thumbs of fat cats far, far away.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tailspin
Princess of the Realm
Username: tailspin

Post Number: 680
Registered: 09-2002


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And it wasn't just 40 jobs. Originally there were approx 75 employees at that site in TH. There have been 2 rounds of layoffs over the past 6 months or so. The 40 that are left are the ones remaining from the original 75. A handful of the ones laid off were able to find temporary positions doing different work with FirstSolutions at less pay. Those positions will end this year. So the number 40 is misleading. There are more than that that will lose their jobs because BCBS is sending work to India. Government program claims. How much sense does that make??? And why did MN allow that to happen?
Another note, many of those employed are single moms or single people and there is no "2nd income". They are it. For others there, they are the main breadwinner and some have significant others or spouses that have lost their jobs in TH. So now neither of them will have work.

(Message edited by tailspin on January 23, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 570
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps what we need to do as consumers, is what I have done in the past. When calling for customer support, and end up talking to someone who is obviously not in the US., I keep saying that I can not understand them, and can I please talk to someone who speaks English. Eventually, you will end up talking to someone in the US. Or if you happen to be able to speak another language, start speaking it. Maybe a bit of Swedish or Finnish. That should stop them in their tracks.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hotr, that sounds good, but the thing is outsourcing our jobs to foreign countries is not going to turn our economy around. We need these jobs in our own country, keep our people working. When is our government going to wake up, you know what, they won't that is the problem!!!
I am so disgusted with our government!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 42
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is nothing tougher than losing your job when you live in a small town like TH. Most people I've known over my lifetime who lose a job in town are forced to move, or if they have a skill, they can sometimes pick up a job in Duluth. But Duluth has had a ton of layoffs too and some of them are TH people. There just is no place to even apply for work once you are unemployed.
Our school district and city/county are about the only decent jobs going anymore. Like I said, the State is in budget crisis, they will be cutting local government aid and school aid. Expect that to force some layoffs sooner or later.
I have listened to politicians for decades praise outsourcing of jobs. They say we can simply just get educated and find even better jobs once all the manufacturing went away. Now service jobs are being outsourced and higher skilled jobs like engineers too. Both political parties have worked as hard as they can to sign trade agreements to get our jobs outsourced and they have worked hard to have an open borders policy. As Americans we keep voting for these same people.
If you think things are bad now, they are going to get a lot worse.
And if you think average people can affect government, just look at the Republican Supreme court and their ruling that Corporations have the rights of people, including so called free speech rights. But instead of free speech, what the Republicans meant was freedom to spend unlimited money on any and all political races. So expect the Corporations to pour money into Republican candidates who want to outsource every job in America. And expect the FOX viewers to vote for them.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Frosted I know there is nothing anyone can do about it. It was more of a rhetorical sp? question. I now try to buy only stuff that is made in America but it is getting much harder to find. I needed a new gas grill last summer and I could find only one that was made here so I bought it, that was it. Good luck trying to find any clothes made here. I do feel bad for the folks in TH that are losing their jobs, this shouldn't be happening.

(Message edited by Lloyd_christmas on January 23, 2010)

(Message edited by Lloyd_christmas on January 23, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1436
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lately I have noticed on TV "Menards" has been advertising things they sell that are made in America, and several were in Wisconsin, one I recall was window wash.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blondie I have noticed that also. Funny thing is that is where I found the grill. Home Depot and my local hardware store only had grills made somewhere else.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 945
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 03:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Republicans are happy with the Supreme Court decision simply because they think the money will flow into their campaigns. Greed has always been the guiding principle of the Republican party."
**********************************************************************

Jack B.The unions will also come under this ruling by the SCOTUS....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 946
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 03:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 24% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-three percent (43%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -19 (see trends).

These figures come from nightly telephone surveys and are reported on a three-day rolling average basis. Today’s update is the first based entirely upon interviews following Tuesday’s election in Massachusetts and the Approval Index has fallen eight points since Tuesday morning.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/dai ly_presidential_tracking_poll
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 571
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Based on the information in Wikipedia, Rasmussen Reports may be tipping the opinions to the right a bit, based on the nature of the questions that they ask. So the old saying about data entry would also apply to pollsters. "Garbage in, garbage out."

Although I agree that the presidents approval rating has dropped from a year ago, I would guess that is true of most all presidents.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is no doubt that his poll numbers are getting worse. Reagan had as bad or lower polling numbers after his first year also. There were predictions Reagan was only going to be a one term president. The conservatives will always point to what Carter had handed him, but seem willing to overlook what Bush handed Obama. An economy on the brink of a depression. Obama could very well turn out to be a one term president. Especially since the Supreme Court made its ruling this week. It looks like Obama is going to go after the banks and try to get more regulation and this is going to cut into their enormous profits. If he starts taking on these big corporations, who do you think they are going to fund in the next elections, both mid term and in 2012? It sure isn't going to be anyone that wants to regulate them tighter. Get ready for more cries of him being a socialist if he does have the guts to take them on. Regarding the unions, do you really think that unions are as wealthy as the big multi national corporations that want to get rid of them? You think things are stacked against the middle class now, just wait a few years. The link below is a good reference regarding polls. There are both liberal and conservative polls who can skew the numbers by the way they ask questions. This guy takes the different polls and somehow is able to make sense of them. He predicted all of the Senate races correctly last Nov and also predicted that Brown was going to win in Mass.


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

charlie_t
Pro Poster
Username: charlie_t

Post Number: 244
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 01:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lloyd: after my post with the Pileated Woodpeckers, you replied and said this:

"Regarding how much you want to convince us Bush was a success, you are in the very small minority of people who see it your way.

I know in the LHP threads 6 or 7 years ago you were badgering some of the posters to bet you that the point wouldn't be developed. It is a good thing for you they didn't take you up on it, you would be a few dollars poorer."

I'm confused, if I ever said either Bush was "a success", well maybe Reggie Bush, but I don't know where you're getting that. And I don't recall the LHP references either. I talked to Sam Cave who said his wife would never let him build condos on the point, I of course have no idea if that was a true statement on his part, but I certainly wouldn't bet a wooden nickel on that kind of sourcing? Are you sure you're thinking about me and not some other poster on these things? I made a comment about Ronald the Gov., but nothing about the Texan Just askin . . .

Plus you didn't say "nice photo" either, but I'm getting over it now.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Charlie T no, it was Bassman not you sorry about that. I do love your and Blondies pictures when you post them though. My apologies.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

charlie_t
Pro Poster
Username: charlie_t

Post Number: 245
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All good .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 07:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, just shows you how vulnerable we are after yesterday.
I was talking to my aunt who lives in Duluth, it was after 10, all of a sudden we were disconnected. I thought here we go again, she disconnected us. I waited, but she didn't call back, so then I tried calling her, and a voice said all circuits were busy, I waited and tried again, same thing. So I thought I would go on the puter...nothing could not get connected at all. WHAT...oh Frontier must be down. So I picked up my cell to call her..NOTHING.
NO phone service, no cell service, no Internet. I found out later the whole area was affected.

I thought maybe there would be something on the news, but nothing. We did see something going across the top of the screen that 911 would be restored between 1-3 p.m. NO 911 service, if there was an emergency you couldn't reach them even. Finally much later I switched the TV to our local, and it said long distance and 911 were out. But Duluth isn't long distance anymore!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 572
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good article in the Duluth paper this morning. The thing that amazes me is that Qwest puts all of its eggs in one basket. I have been in the telecommunications business for over 40 years, and find it hard to believe that Qwest has a single point of failure for such critical communications. One of Qwest's own offerings is called SHARPS, which stands for Self-Healing Alternate Route Protection Service. Which basically provides redundant cable or fiber optic for a business to receive their calls. They even offer seperate cables entrances into the business's building.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I learned one lesson. I can't live with out the computer and high speed internet access. Just turning on TV and listening to what passes for news and entertainment is enough to turn your stomach!
I agree, our communications systems should be a but more redundant.
But in the vast waste land of television, I happened across a great Real Estate show called "Million Dollar Listing" on BRAVO. About three LA high flying Real Estate agents and their businesses selling homes and condos all priced over a million. Lets you see how the other half lives. Hint, it ain't like we live in Two Harbors. Even if Sam had built condos!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

todd_r
Pro Poster
Username: todd_r

Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found if you go to the breakwall and re-boot your cell phone, you can pick up an alternate tower (across the lake?) and have service.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1440
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Say that is good to know Todd.

I like to watch shows about real estate, HGTV has lots of them, different ones. Some of those homes are ridiculous, huge, our home could fit in the entry ways of many of them. My thought why does a person need such a big fancy home in the first place...and think of the taxes.

I know this I sure missed the computer yesterday, the thing is, it was sitting here, and still working, but the internet wasnt'...not like when it is in the shop.

Just shows you how easy terrorists can knock out our life line to the rest of the world in an instant!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

nightrider
Pro Poster
Username: nightrider

Post Number: 73
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 09:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do not know about other people but I had phone and internet all day yesterday. Oh yeah I have Mediacom for both.

Did I hear correctly that our second auto repair shop went up in flames last night within two months of the first one? What the heck is going one. I feel bad for what has happened to both businesses.

Can not seem to type correctly this morning.

(Message edited by nightrider on January 27, 2010)

(Message edited by nightrider on January 27, 2010)

(Message edited by nightrider on January 27, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1441
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Say Todd, a dumb question, how do you reboot your cell phone? I just have a simple one, not a fancy one. I just text and call on mine.

Hubby just came in and said Reliable burnt.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 510
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to Blondie, about long distance: Duluth still is long distance. We just don't have to dial the 1 before the number. A number of years ago there was a vote in T.H. regarding an enhanced wide area calling system, wherein we would all pay a little bit more for our basic phone service in return for the ability to call Duluth without paying for a long distance call or having to dial 1 before the number. The calls to Duluth still go over the same cable as other long distance calls. Cell calls eventually have to go through the regular landline infrastructure somewhere, in order to connect to another phone.

The irony of yesterday's event is that we could not even call the phone company to see if there was something wrong with the phone system - all the phone company numbers are long distance, even for local business.

What I am curious about is the news story saying that the cable was melted from a steam rupture. Glass and copper both melt at temperatures over 1000 degrees, so what happened? I could see the cable being physically ruptured and torn by a high velocity jet of escaping steam, but not melted. An exception might be a very high pressure, superheat steam system, hot enough to melt glass, but I cannot imagine the city piping that kind of steam around the downtown. That would be muy expensivo, and hairy scary.
tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1442
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, I know that, we pay so much a month on our bill for this, yes we voted for it. It is long distance, but yet in a way it isn't. I still run into people who think they have to dial the 1 and area code to call Duluth, not new comers either, people who have lived here since all this went into effect. I guess they don't pay attention to their phone bill.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they ever pin the crime on anyone for the "7th Avenue Auto Service" fire? If "Reliable" went up too, do we have a nut running around committing arson? We had one a few years back, he lived at Bayview and was torching places he could see from his back window. They sent him away.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1443
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

we were just talking about those arson's that happened a few years back. Forgot they caught the guy.

Last I heard they were still investigating the 7th Ave one. Not sure what the cause was for Reliable. Maybe it will make the news!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

todd_r
Pro Poster
Username: todd_r

Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rebooting the phone is simply turning off and turning on. Maybe it would eventually find the other tower by itself eventually?
I had internet all day with Lakenet wireless.
There was a fire near me about 2 summers ago (Brownies, South Ave). That was labeled arson. Don't think anyone was charged there either.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1444
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks todd, I had no idea.
How do you like wireless with Lakenet todd? When I had Lakenet dial up several years back, I was overwhelmed with junk mail and virus mails, it was not very good... so that is why I quit them.
Then I went to another company for a few years, and that started getting as slow as molasses in January, and problems dialing up, so quit them.
Does bad weather affect your connection?
I have gone on and checked info on it, but feedback is good.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

todd_r
Pro Poster
Username: todd_r

Post Number: 110
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The weather seldom affects my wireless connection. Snow or rain hardly never, but an ice storm is no good. The tv dish is way more fickle to weather conditions.
Yeh, I get some spam, maybe a couple dozen a day?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1445
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Question, have I missed something on the news, has anyone seen anything on TV about the outage yesterday? I saw on 10 about Reliable burning, but that is it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 776
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

911 was out????
I can not believe they are working on something like internet which, when compared to 911, is trivial when this item hasn't been addressed.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

strwblue
Pro Poster
Username: strwblue

Post Number: 632
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Frosted... The fiber-obtic line what was melted carries internet and 911 and local phone traffic... They fixed both when they fixed the fiber line.
Disclaimer: In as much as I am the Two Harbors Public Access Coordinator I am not now or have I ever spoken for the City of Two Harbors on this board.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 777
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True dat. I am surprised there is not a 911 back up in place. It amazes me that Duluth gets steamed and TH loses 911. Couldn't you make any local calls? All local calls go through Duluth? 911 calls made in Lake County goes from your home, say on 7th avenue, to Duluth and then to the dispatcher in the Sheriffs office? Something does not sound right.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1446
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yes we could make local calls, but not out of the area.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 778
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And you, Blondie posted; "We did see something going across the top of the screen that 911 would be restored between 1-3 p.m. NO 911 service, if there was an emergency you couldn't reach them even." Which was echoed by the Chronicle, on line.
So I ask; Is 911 not a local call? the common good of Lake County is dependent on the upkeep of Duluth service tunnels? This just does not sound right. There is something wrong with this picture.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

strwblue
Pro Poster
Username: strwblue

Post Number: 633
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were is Jerry Norberg when you need him. He could explain it better. But here is a site that talks about Minnesota's statewide 9-1-1 program. http://www.911.state.mn.us/psap_advisory.asp
Disclaimer: In as much as I am the Two Harbors Public Access Coordinator I am not now or have I ever spoken for the City of Two Harbors on this board.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1447
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FF, I guess someone who knows how the system works could try to explain it, as I sure as heck don't understand the whole scenario at this point.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jerry_n
Pro Poster
Username: jerry_n

Post Number: 232
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 05:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, its a little late but a steam pipe broke in Duluth and melted a section of fiber optic cable. That cable controlled all of the internet and enhanced 911 lines for the north shore.

A new section of cable had to be trucked in from New Brighton, MN. In the meantime, 9-1-1 as you knew WAS down for a while. When we found out, we immediately went to work on " routing" 9-1-1 calls to a different jurisdiction. Problem was, QWest, who owns the fiber optic cable, told us they couldnt do it. So, we routed all of 9-1-1 calls to three answering points. 834 and 323 (isabella) were routed to our dispatch center through 834-0911 number. 226 (SB) was routed to our Sheriff's station office in SB (226-6100) and 353 (Finland) was routed to the Finland Rescue Squad building. We manned each of those outlying stations with a combination of off-duty deputies; off duty dispatchers and volunteers from the respective Fire departments, ambulance crews and Rescue squad members. By 10 p.m. everything was fixed and back to normal. 9-1-1 was down, completely, for a short period of time because we simply didnt know it was down.

the 834 to 834 numbers were always operational. They stayed on the local level. You could not dial outside numbers even though they werent long distance. Remember that TH is Frontier telephone. Some of the 226 to 226 numbers worked, some didnt. They are supplied by QWest. I dont know why that is.

FF, there is nothing we can do about QWests inability to re-route fiber optics. When we were soliciting bids for our 9-1-1 system, QWest assured us that they can re-route for interruptions in fiber optics and it wouldnt be a problem. Well, the proof is in the pudding now isnt it. As far the "working on the internet instead of 9-1-1" comment is concerned, they are one in the same as far as fixability.

Interestingly enough, the internet was more important than someone not being able to access their emails. Banks basically shut their doors because of it. No credit cards could be used for purchases. Most of the businesses had to accept cash or checks for any business because "the internet" was down. You could not get gas unless you paid with cash or check. "The Internet", as we all know it, is far more important to daily living than any of us ever realized.

ANYWAY.. heres the bottom line, once we knew of the problem with 9-1-1, we initiated an established protocol (thanks to Steve Olson)and had 9-1-1 functional within a short period of time AND we did not miss a single emergency 9-1-1 call. 9-1-1 worked when the Reliable fire was called in.

Sorry for the long post but that actually is the short version.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1448
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 07:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Jerry for your input on this. Like you said the proof is in the pudding now!!! It takes something like this to happen to show it though. Maybe Qwest can figure out something for the problem with 911, so this doesn't happen in the future. Thanks to everyone who worked so hard to re route 911 calls and man those stations. Great Job!
I certainly am not blaming anyone here, the problem was not caused here, but as I had said before, it just shows us how vulnerable we are.
Technology is good, but also has its drawbacks!
AGAIN THANKS!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

nightrider
Pro Poster
Username: nightrider

Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Even though I have an 834 number, the services are now provided by Mediacom for me. So for me, I could call Duluth, St. Louis MO, etc. but I could not call any 834 numbers. This is because Mediacom was routing my calls through a different fiber line out of Two Harbors and then I could not get back to Two Harbors because of the damaged Qwest fiber line. I also had Internet all day because of Mediacom using a different fiber line.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1449
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nightrider this is crazy...well minus and pluses in the system I guess!
Actually I did not know we could even call 834 until I saw it on our local channel.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 779
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Jerry. I guess that Q West will have to take steps to repair the problem they had with not being able to supply 911. I wonder if they owe us money as we were paying on a contract, for a service that they could not provide.

(Message edited by frosted_flakes on January 28, 2010)
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 511
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Heck of a news story today! Not only is our tin can phone system dependent on just one string, now it seems that Qwest was lying to us about the cause of the failure! There was no steam leak. Period. In reading the story, it sounds like maybe the cable was laid too close to the steam pipe. The heat from the pipe damaged the cable in such a way that the cable failed. From earlier reports of the cable repairs being performed over some distance, maybe the cable had been damaged in several places instead of just one break.

Then, our emergency services here are told that Qwest can re-route emergency calls if the cable is damaged -- and then failed in this ability, the question that is begging to be asked is, "when is Qwest telling the truth, and how will we know ?"

tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1450
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, just got the paper and read that. Hmmmm!!!!
Very interesting read.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1452
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just reading in the Cook County Herald about the outage.
They said they could not access patients charts, since their server is in Duluth. I assume this was probably true here also, as all our info is on computers now, right?
They had to rely on the information that patients told them like what meds they are taking, or not taking!!!
Go back to having patients charts!

Couldn't have your insurance company authorize payment even for a presciption that was to be picked up locally.
They have a long list of things that couldn't be done because of the outage, this is just a couple.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 512
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y'know, it is just a small step from outage to outrage

tom koehler

(Message edited by Tom_koehler on January 30, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

strwblue
Pro Poster
Username: strwblue

Post Number: 635
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Disclaimer: In as much as I am the Two Harbors Public Access Coordinator I am not now or have I ever spoken for the City of Two Harbors on this board.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice picture. Coal docks still standing, coal slab full of piles. Lots of fishing shacks and houses out by the Light House. Fair Grounds are there. Just like I remember it as a kid. What year is it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

strwblue
Pro Poster
Username: strwblue

Post Number: 636
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My husbands grandfather had this picture. He passed away in November last year and one of the amazing things we found was this picture/
Disclaimer: In as much as I am the Two Harbors Public Access Coordinator I am not now or have I ever spoken for the City of Two Harbors on this board.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lloyd_christmas
Regular Poster
Username: lloyd_christmas

Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have this picture also and I looked to see if there was a date on it, couldn't find anything saying what year it was taken.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

todd_r
Pro Poster
Username: todd_r

Post Number: 111
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've seen this photo many times, and have guessed it to be circa 1940, plus or minus half a dozen years.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 514
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just talked to a friend of mine, who spent many hours in the tunnel under the street in Duluth, splicing optic phone cable. Says it was a mess down there, HAD to be a steam leak. Glass fiber blown all over the place down there like it was shot out of a fiberglass gun.

Steam utility does not want to be liable for the cost of the phone outage. Phone company does not want to pay for it alone.

Gonna be full employment for lawyers on this little fiasco.

tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

webman
Moderator
Username: webman

Post Number: 847
Registered: 08-1999


Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 04:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Sleep,
Why do you abandon me in my hours of need?
The trouble with life is, there's no background music.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

torggy
Moderator
Username: torggy

Post Number: 1452
Registered: 04-2002


Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 05:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they abandon you or were they pushed away?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 574
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The fiber disaster.

In regards to the issue with the fiber optic cable. It appears that everyone is pointing the finger at someone else. The reality of this situation, there is plenty of blame to go around.

First of all, which came first the fiber cable or the steam pipes? If it was the steam pipes, then shame on Qwest for installing fiber along side of them. The temperature rating for normal duct work fiber is up to 158 degrees F. The temperature of steam is above 212 degrees dependent upon how much pressure it is under. If they knew that there was a temperature concern, why did they not install high temperature fiber optic cable? There is cable that is rated at up to 400 degrees. If there is a release valve on the steam pipe, which I would suspect there is, is it close to the fiber cable? Qwest stated that when they came on the scene they could see steam escaping from the manhole. Duh, I see steam escaping from my mouth when the temperature is just above zero, as it was that morning. They also stated that the temperature in the tunnel was higher than normal. If the temperature was over 158 degrees, you wouldn’t have been in the manhole. For this the blame goes to Qwest.

Second, if the steam pipe was installed after the fiber cable, doesn’t the City of Duluth have the responsibility to notify the other users of the tunnels and manholes of their intent? If there were a steam pipe explosion and there were critical utilities in the manhole that could interrupt communications, or power, gas, or other security concerns, wouldn’t you want to know that? If this is the case, then blame the City of Duluth. If the City did notify the other users of the manholes that they were installing steam pipes, then the blame goes back to Qwest for not adapting to the new fiber environment.

Thirdly, Qwest does not have a reroute plan as they stated. This is unbelievable. Most business that have critical communication needs have disaster plans and reroute plans for their communication needs. Why wouldn’t the telephone company have such a plan? A big shame on you Qwest for this weakness.

The toss up. Qwest says the steam pipe ruptured, the city of Duluth says there were not steam pipe repairs. Who do you trust? Another possibility is the temperature extremes for a fiber cable which is made of glass, going from zero degrees to maybe 100 degrees. What happens if you were to take a drinking glass from the freezer and drop it into a sink of hot water? It most likely would shatter.

Finally, Lake County. You were told that Qwest had a reroute plan. Did you ask to see it? If not, I also have some ocean front property in North Dakota. Does the county have a disaster recovery program? Do you ever test it? Obviously, there were some plans in place, as you did get some degree of coverage, but as you have stated, it took a long time. These kinds of recovery programs should not take hours. How often do you test your backup plans? They should be done at least annually. Did you ever test the Qwest reroute plan? Obviously not. Why not? Blame the county for this one.

As you can see there is enough blame to go around. Now everyone has to take their piece of it and fix it so this doesn’t happen again.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1455
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

as far as I know those pipes have been heating the buildings of downtown duluth long before fiber optic came into this area. They were around when I was a kid that I know.

The steam plant is to blame just as much as Qwest is, they allowed the installation of the fiber optic along those pipes. Qwest is at fault for not insulating them enough. Both are at blame as far as I can tell, or read in the papers that is.

Was this a wake up call to show us how we are not prepared for disaster like this, and if it was what will be done to prevent such a thing from happening again!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 517
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On a different track for now, is there any information on the car that exploded and burned up in the parking lot across from the Minnehaha a few days ago?
tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

nat_sherman
Pro Poster
Username: nat_sherman

Post Number: 321
Registered: 02-2007


Posted on Monday, February 15, 2010 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not to re-hash old stuff, but I thought this was new info on the global climate change discussion. I know I'm not going to change many if anyones minds. Intersting article and I'll leave it at that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment- scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

Head lines from linked article above:

Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.

Asked about whether he lost track of data, Professor Jones said: ‘There is some truth in that. We do have a trail of where the weather stations have come from but it’s probably not as good as it should be.

He also agreed that there had been two periods which experienced similar warming, from 1910 to 1940 and from 1975 to 1998, but said these could be explained by natural phenomena whereas more recent warming could not.

He further admitted that in the last 15 years there had been no ‘statistically significant’ warming, although he argued this was a blip rather than the long-term trend.

He added that the professor’s concessions over medieval warming were ‘significant’ because they were his first public admission that the science was not settled.

Below is a link to the full Professor Jones Q & A the article linked above is refering to. At the very least an intersting read.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm
Magna est veritas, et praevalet
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 47
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Local comment. I heard on Minnesota Public Radio this morning that that a study of the state of Minnesotan's health by county turned up LAKE County [US] as having the worst health in Minnesota. Not the worst health care, but the worst overall health. Here is my guess as to why we ranked so low.
Alcohol
cigarettes
fast food
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1460
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

lets add to that, not enough exercise!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

strwblue
Pro Poster
Username: strwblue

Post Number: 637
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't forget Drugs
Disclaimer: In as much as I am the Two Harbors Public Access Coordinator I am not now or have I ever spoken for the City of Two Harbors on this board.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 575
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The lack of health insurance coverage could also add to this. If you can't afford to go to the doctor, you may just not go. How many employers in Lake County do not offer any kind of health care insurance?
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

todd_r
Pro Poster
Username: todd_r

Post Number: 113
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I didnt think the Q&A provided supported the headlines.

the first headline for example: Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

Now here is Jones actual answer to is it man-made?
E - How confident are you that warming has taken place and that humans are mainly responsible?
I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 - there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity.

The phrase, "suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon" was not Professor Jones's.

After reading the actual Q&A, I thought it really deflated the sensational headlines.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

sparky
Regular Poster
Username: sparky

Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Minneapolis Star Tribune has an article mentioning Dr. Clifford. Part of the low health outcomes is the ratio of grocery stores to zip codes and lack of health care access outside of Two harbors. People in Silver Bay for instance do not have a local health clinic and 24/7 options. But alcohol, drugs.....

The Wall Street Journal had an article today about the stimulus money. The broadband issue is way on the bottom of the list unfortunately for the North Shore. Most of the stimulus money so far has been spent on government employees and administration
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 48
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It was kinda funny to hear the MPR commentators say something like "Gee, I never would have expected that Lake County up on the beautiful north shore would be at the very bottom in overall health".
What the City Folks never seem to notice, is that people actually live up here and we have been in an economic depression since the early 1970s. Yes, lack of health insurance and our low incomes have an effect.
For some strange reason, blue collar work and low incomes seem to go hand in hand with Alcohol, cigarettes, fast food, lack of exercise.
I wouldn't blame drugs because I don't think Lake county can match other areas of MN for drug abuse. It is a proven fact that alcohol and cigarettes both contain highly addictive and deadly drugs.
I will not mention names, and this was many, many years ago, but one of our long term doctors once was know to say that over half of all illness he saw in Lake County was alcohol related.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 576
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After reading the article on the StarTribune, I would have to say that perhaps the rating of unhealthiest county does not really mean that the people are unhealthy but that the criteria for measuring a health environment are somewhat lacking. One of the measurements was how many grocery stores there were per zip code. According to the article there are three grocery stores within six zip codes. In more metro areas, there may be 3 grocery stores within a couple of blocks. Another was the lack of 24/7 health care facilities available. Perhaps a more accurate method of determining a health rating would be to consider deaths per 100,000, and be sure to take into account murders, suicides, as these are also a factor in the overall health of a county. Lake county may not be the most healthy place in the state, but it may not be as bad as this report makes it out to be. I have learned long ago that you can make statistics represent anything you want, just by using the right criteria.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 951
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 04:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Uh oh, Vonn's gold medal to be taken back, by IOC
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
and given to Obama because no one has gone downhill faster....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

sparky
Regular Poster
Username: sparky

Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

@homeontherange...You are right about the stats. Seems to me the obits in the Chronicle have some pretty old people who grew up in Lake County.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 521
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I guess I am just a bit steamed about some members of our city council thinking that the Split Rock Lighthouse represents Two Harbors better than the Two Harbors Lighthouse does. Hello? Is anyone home? The Split Rock Lighthouse may be iconic of the North Shore in general, but nothin' says Two Harbors like the Two Harbors Lighthouse. uffda.
tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bassman
Moderator
Username: bassman

Post Number: 952
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 04:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nothin' says Two Harbors like the Two Harbors Lighthouse. uffda.
*********************************************************************

I don't often agree with you on a number of issues Tom, but on this one I sure do...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jackburton
Regular Poster
Username: jackburton

Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I missed that one tom_koehler. What has the city council been up to as regards our light houses?
I always considered split rock the symbol of the North Shore, second only to a plate of fried herring, and the TH light house as a co-symbol along with the Edna G. of Two Harbors.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

tom_koehler
Pro Poster
Username: tom_koehler

Post Number: 522
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, jackburton, there was a piece in the Duluth paper not long ago, regarding decisions the council is making about the tree trunk from the honking tree. I knew that a lighthouse was going to be one of the likely topics of a chainsaw carving which would be placed at the corner of 7th avenue and 6th street, across from the Dairy Queen. I figured a generic lighthouse, y'know... taller than it is wide, with some kind of beacon cupola on top. I'm fine with that, there's just so much you can do with a tree trunk. Well the story in the paper said something to the effect that the lighthouse at Split Rock was more emblematic of Two Harbors than our own lighthouse was. This was apparently the opinion of a number of city council members.

I'm certainly willing to be found wrong, or that I misunderstood something in the article, but the sentences were pretty short and used simple words. Maybe it will be reprinted in the Chronny.

Bassman, I do appreciate your agreeing with me on this item. Thank you.

tom koehler
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1463
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's a link to the Honking Tree - Split Rock Lighthouse story from Thursday's Lake County News-Chronicle:

http://www.twoharborsmn.com/event/article/id/19787/

This post edited by admin: 2-27-10


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

frosted_flakes
Pro Poster
Username: frosted_flakes

Post Number: 783
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Split Rock Light is much more esthetically pleasing.
However, I think John should carve it into cord wood which would be emblematic of the logging industry that helped make this area into a place where one single tree could be taken so emotionally by so many people. Without the logging industry, these poor souls would be honking continuously from Duluth to Two Harbors. We owe a lot to the logging industry.
Two Harbors. Love it or leave it.
Just leave it alone.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

homeontherange
Pro Poster
Username: homeontherange

Post Number: 577
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe what should be done with this historic tree, is cut it into about an eight foot log, peel the bark off, and let some of the local artisans carve the history of two harbors into it. Kind of like a rune log of two harbors. The rest of the tree could be sawn into boards and make a mini display to create a display of two harbors notable sites. The location mentioned previously, would be the right location.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

webman
Moderator
Username: webman

Post Number: 848
Registered: 08-1999


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bonfire
The trouble with life is, there's no background music.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

blondie
Pro Poster
Username: blondie

Post Number: 1464
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 07:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gage will go to all the trouble of carving a lighthouse, and someone will come along and "cut" this one down also or destroy it. I can just see that happening. Goodness how many times has the big Rooster been stolen!!

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration